I was in shock!!!!

[Travelinman]

When I read this, most normal thinking people already knew this,

US Secretary of State Colin Powell has conceded that Iraq may not have possessed any stocks of weapons of mass destruction before the war last year.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3426703.stm

[Wildrider]

<GASP! > What a surprise! Who would have thought?

[mike]

well tom, don't be surprised they are polititions, ::)what do you expect? they have the same directive as eddie "garrero", lie,cheat,steal.... sorry to all spanish speaking people, for bad spelling.
by the way, where have you been hiding? you get stuck in a snow storm or something?haven't seen you around for sometime. ;D for those of you who don't know eddie is a pro-wrestler.later,mike.

[Travelinman]

;D Well let's see......where have I been, You sent me that wonderful white gift......remember. Hello Mike, I really love the snow, no, no, I really do. AS LONG AS IT FALLS SOMEWHERE OTHER then where I live.

Just been putting in too many hours in the mines. So how are things with you up there in the great WHITE north? Hope all is well.

[mike]

;D... how much snow did you get ,tom... 5 ft?
close to it by now i am sure. and no i did not send it, that old guy upstairs has a funny sense of humor. he likes to keep us on our toes. don't matter cause you live in one of those rent controlled apt's right, the manager has to shovel out all your walks right?lol. good exercise for him. ;D you have 1 of those 2000 square ft penthouses...... split level....?? with a balcony for your cat to go out and watch birds.....you don't have togo downtown to watch the newyears eve fireworks, cause you can see them from home.
you see the mtv movie "joe's apartment"......? lol.....
guess that is enough razzing . i'll be here tomorrow nite.
mike.

[Southbound]

Now here's a real shocker. Even if this was true, then how come they didn't just say so to begin with?


Bush Military Service Files Were Destroyed

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The Pentagon says military records related to President Bush's service in the National Guard more than 30 years ago were inadvertently destroyed, The New York Times reported on Friday.

Payroll records of "numerous service members," including Bush, were ruined in 1996 and 1997 during a project to salvage deteriorating microfilm by the Defense Finance and Accounting Service, the newspaper said, citing the Pentagon.

Bush's whereabouts during his service in the National Guard during the Vietnam War have become an election-year issue, with some Democrats accusing him of shirking his duty.

The destroyed files cover three months of a period in 1972 and 1973 when Bush's claims of service in Alabama are in question, the newspaper said. No back-up paper copies of the records could be found, the Pentagon said in notices dated June 25, according to the Times.

The loss of the records was announced by the Defense Department's Office of Freedom of Information and Security Review in letters to the Times and other news organizations that for nearly half a year have sought Bush's complete service file, the newspaper reported.

In February, the White House released hundreds of pages of Bush's military records. Those records did not provide new evidence to place Bush in Alabama during the latter part of 1972, when some Democrats say he was basically absent without leave.

Dan Bartlett, the White House communications director who has said the released records confirmed the president's fulfillment of his National Guard commitment, did not return two calls for a response, the Times said.

07/09/04 06:44

[Travelinman]

Hello Southbound how have you been, long time no speak. Love the avatar, how's this "I am Arthur son of Uther Pendragon of the castle of Camelot, King of the Britians, defeater of the Saxons, Soveriegn of all England"

Back to the missing papers, this is the privilege of being a member of a rich and powerful family. Whatever you want to have happened......did.

When I was in the service I was on a hitch ride in a sub (I don't know how those guys stay under for 6 months) anyway there was a Senator from the defense committe with this big investor in Electric Boat on the boat. The investor was telling the men how he had served in the Navy on a sub and how he loved it. During this outing the boat was involved in a war game, at one point they did was is called an emergency blow. The only way you can describe this to people is, remember when you were young and at the beach or in a pool. You force a ball under the water and then let it go. If you ever did this think back to the ball coming out of the water. Emergency blow same thing, only your inside the ball.

Most submariners do get used to this. Well this millionair turned 3 shades of green and lost his lunch. Moral of the story.....not one man on that boat believed that he was ever on a sub or in the Navy. His money got him the ride nothing else.

Bush=money=papers vanish=do what I say don't worry about what I never did.

[Roughneck]

Nope, didn't surprise me one bit. I was sitting laughing at this rather pathetic attempt at an explanation. anyone know how long microfilm lasts? Now, we have original papers dating from much further back than that. I've worked with papers that date back to well into the early 19th Century, and they aren't on the verge of falling apart. We still have records from the MIDDLE AGES! They're going to try saying that microfilm, which is certainly sturdier than paper, lasted less than 25 years?

[Southbound]

Travelinman said:

Hello Southbound how have you been, long time no speak. Love the avatar, how's this "I am Arthur son of Uther Pendragon of the castle of Camelot, King of the Britians, defeater of the Saxons, Soveriegn of all England"

"I don't wanna talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
Now, go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!"
;D

As long as I keep myself out of trouble with you know who I'm not doing too bad TM. Beer, some Python, a comfortable reclining position and I'm good. ;D How about yourself?

Your story reminds me of another guy from a rich and powerful family. He got to play soldier too, only he dressed up in a military issue flight suit, hitched a ride on a fighter jet and landed on an aircraft carrier. Gee no kidding, you're right. When you're rich and powerful you can buy anything. Oh wait, I goofed. He didn't buy himself that one. That one was on us, a treat from the taxpayers.
Oh wow it just hit me ;D This is the same rich guy whose pretend service records that pretend to show his pretend whereabouts that the Pentagon just now pretend to discover they'd pretend had been accidentally destroyed.
Being rich and powerful is great, you can make things appear and disappear! ;D

[Southbound]

Roughneck is there a site that's selling that one for real? I'd like to get me one of those.

[snizz]

Southbound said:

"I don't wanna talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
Now, go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!"
;D

I'll bite.
"Run away! Run away!"

Yeah that news could've bowled me over with a feather. Imagine that. What a coincidence the exact same three months, and only those three months, in question were accidentally destroyed! Absolutely mindblowing. Damn, what are the odds?

You raised a good question Roughneck. I know old celluloid film disintegrates in time, but I'm not sure about microfilm so I looked it up. Here's what I found on a historical preservation website.
"The enduring popularity of preservation microfilm is because of its practicality. Unlike its digital counterpart, microfilm is the product of a nearly static, tested technology that is governed by carefully crafted national standards. When created and stored according to these standards, microfilm boasts a life expectancy of 500+ years."

I also see the Senate has picked the CIA to be the lone fall guy for their own incompetancy (and the Bushies' by default to cover their own asses ) towards the Iraq fiasco. Nevermind that even the lowly average American wasn't convinced there was enough evidence to get this country involved in Iraq in the run up to the war and questioned the big rush to war. Nevermind that after the Senate released their report that it's been left widely unreported by the liberal left wing media that the deputy chief of the CIA admitted screw ups but also said that all anyone in the administration and Congress read was a condensed version of their initial report, not one of them bothered reading the full report that explained the caveats of many of their findings. Reading to gather knowledge to make informed decisions looks to have become extinct among politicians. But I guess that's what happens when people spend so much time with their heads up their asses.

Did anyone else catch the fact that they're not releasing their report on the administration's hand in it until after the election?

[Roughneck]

Site's right here Southbound.

snizz said:

Yeah that news could've bowled me over with a feather. Imagine that. What a coincidence the exact same three months, and only those three months, in question were accidentally destroyed! Absolutely mindblowing. Damn, what are the odds?

You raised a good question Roughneck. I know old celluloid film disintegrates in time, but I'm not sure about microfilm so I looked it up. Here's what I found on a historical preservation website.
"The enduring popularity of preservation microfilm is because of its practicality. Unlike its digital counterpart, microfilm is the product of a nearly static, tested technology that is governed by carefully crafted national standards. When created and stored according to these standards, microfilm boasts a life expectancy of 500+ years."

Yup, so even if they exaggerated the 500, you know it should have lasted til now. It doesn't surprise me that Bush tried this story. It does surprise me how anyone could buy this story. He*ll, if he'd said aliens had taken the records, his supporters would buy it. I mean, you could show this information on the life expectancy of microfilm, and they'd still buy him. If he went on TV and said this was all to settle a personal vendetta, red folks would still support him.

I also see the Senate has picked the CIA to be the lone fall guy for their own incompetancy (and the Bushies' by default to cover their own asses ) towards the Iraq fiasco. Nevermind that even the lowly average American wasn't convinced there was enough evidence to get this country involved in Iraq in the run up to the war and questioned the big rush to war. Nevermind that after the Senate released their report that it's been left widely unreported by the liberal left wing media that the deputy chief of the CIA admitted screw ups but also said that all anyone in the administration and Congress read was a condensed version of their initial report, not one of them bothered reading the full report that explained the caveats of many of their findings. Reading to gather knowledge to make informed decisions looks to have become extinct among politicians. But I guess that's what happens when people spend so much time with their heads up their asses.

Yup, I seem to distinctly remember that CIA assesments were one of the biggest obstacles to the war, always giving "but waits" to the intelligence that showed any sign that Bush might be right.

Did anyone else catch the fact that they're not releasing their report on the administration's hand in it until after the election?

C'mon, you didn't REALLY expect a Republican chaired commission and a Republican Congress to conduct an investigation that would all but destroy a Republican President Puppet, did you? Obviously, they'd find sorting it out with a Democrat to be of the utmost important. I think I found in the Boy Who Cried Iraq site that they took close to 150 hours of testimony on whether Clinton misused travel funds in some way, forget how, but 4 or 5 on Abu Gaffe.

[Roughneck]

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. officials have discussed the idea of postponing Election Day in the event of a terrorist attack on or about that day, a Homeland Security Department spokesman said Sunday.

The department has referred questions about the matter to the Department of Justice's Office of Legal Counsel, spokesman Brian Roehrkasse said.

The department wants to know about the possibility of granting emergency power to the newly created U.S. Election Assistance Commission, authority that Roehrkasse said was requested by DeForest B. Soaries Jr., the commission's chairman.

Soaries, who was appointed by President Bush, is a former New Jersey secretary of state and senior pastor of the 7,000-member First Baptist Church of Lincoln Gardens in Somerset, New Jersey.

He wrote in April to Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge and national security adviser Condoleezza Rice asking them to seek such legislation from Congress, Roehrkasse said.

Roehrkasse said the recent discussions were sparked by intelligence indicating al Qaeda wants to "disrupt our democratic process."

Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge warned of such an attack in a news conference last week, saying the warning was based on intercepted "chatter" among al Qaeda operatives. (Full story)

Roehrkasse noted, however, that there was no specific information suggesting such an attack would be aimed at the political conventions or the November 2 Election Day.

The four-day Democratic convention kicks off July 26 in Boston, Massachusetts, and the Republican National Convention begins August 30 in New York City.

Ridge also said the nation's color-coded terrorist threat level would remain at yellow, or elevated.

Democratic Rep. Jane Harman of California, a member of the House Intelligence Committee, took issue with Ridge's comments Sunday.

"Six days ago, the leadership of the House and Senate intelligence committees and leadership of the House and Senate were briefed on these so-called new threats," Harman said on CNN's "Late Edition."

"They are more chatter about old threats, which were the subject of a press conference by Attorney General [John] Ashcroft and [FBI] Director [Robert] Mueller six weeks ago.

"[Ridge] sounded more like an interior decorator talking about what more we can do under the shade of yellow," she said.

What has Homeland Security officials worried is that terrorists could attempt to disrupt the election in same way that March 11 train bombings in Madrid created unrest three days before the Spanish general election, Roehrkasse said.

Although there is no evidence that the bombings influenced the Spanish election, Socialist Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero unseated Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar, whose government supported the U.S.-led war in Iraq.

Does this really surprise anyone? THIS REALLY scares me! We've had our elections on schedule without fail, even through war. even the Election of 1812 was held AFTER we declared war on Britain IIRC, a war that there was a real chance we'd lose. We held it in the middle of the Civil War, and World War II. The stupid thing is, he doesn't realize what sheep the American people are. While the Spanish kicked their government out for failing to protect them after getting them in a war, our dumbass people would by and large rally around Bush who would wrap himself in the flag. Anyone think he'd have the balls to try to postpone it past January 20?

[LS]

LOL!! Aw geeze TM...look what ya started!!
Ok- I'm in... ;D
"Would it help to confuse it if we run away more?"

On DuHbya's accidentally destroyed records...Uh yeah- and I believe in goblins, the 'magic bullet' theory and Saddam being behind 9/11 too. . For a man of 'God' he sure appears to be one majorly uncontrollable psychopathic liar of epic proportions ...But gotta admit...this one is so shamelessly transparent- it had me laughing for hours!!

On the Senate report...what a bunch of butt wipes!! While I have no particular love for the CIA...I too seem to recall the CIA qualifying most of their information- saying it was raw data or came from questionable informants (and even later discrediting some of them after further investigation)...and I do recall Tenet testifying before Congress around the time of the vote that they had NO evidence that Iraq was an imminent threat and was a low risk to the U.S. Agreed- they're merely covering their own sorry asses for their own incompetency and failure to uphold the system of checks and balances.

Roughneck said:

Does this really surprise anyone? THIS REALLY scares me! We've had our elections on schedule without fail, even through war. even the Election of 1812 was held AFTER we declared war on Britain IIRC, a war that there was a real chance we'd lose. We held it in the middle of the Civil War, and World War II. The stupid thing is, he doesn't realize what sheep the American people are. While the Spanish kicked their government out for failing to protect them after getting them in a war, our dumbass people would by and large rally around Bush who would wrap himself in the flag. Anyone think he'd have the balls to try to postpone it past January 20?

This is the part that really bugs me...here we go with the 'church' connection- again.

"Soaries, who was appointed by President Bush, is a former New Jersey secretary of state and senior pastor of the 7,000-member First Baptist Church of Lincoln Gardens in Somerset, New Jersey."

On the other hand...they do have to do something about a safety net. Lost in the chaos of 9/11 is the little known fact that it was also mayoral primary voting day in NYC...and the election was cancelled and postponed for two weeks. First, who's gonna think of voting when you're in the middle of Armaggedon?? Second, not only was the city under lockdown- but tens of thousands of people were stranded and even if they still held the election- couldn't get to their polling place even if it were an option...
Granted, this one only effected NYC...but what if it were a Presidential election?? Sure people in the rest of the country would still be able to vote- but a city of 8 million wouldn't be able to...and that could- and probably would- unfairly effect the outcome...
In the case of Madrid where an attack happened 3 days prior to an election, or if it happened the day before an election...then no- there's definitely no reason to postpone an election. But what happens in a case an attack happens somewhere here ON election day?? Especially in a close race?? Possibly millions of people get no say?? I think in that case there should be a contingency clause- but one that states the election has to be held within a set period of time like the following week or maybe the week after at the most...

[Roland]

You have to count me in too!
"If you do not tell us where we can buy a shrubbery, my friend and I will say- we will say- 'ni'."

It never ceases to amaze me how low IQ people always assume everyone else also has low IQs. Both the "accidentally" destoyed records and the Senate Intelligence report made for some hillarious comedy.

Now that you've mentioned it LS, you've refreshed my memory and I do remember it was briefly reported that it was also primary day and they'd postponed it. The election process has evolved and changed since it's inception. At first landowners were only allowed to vote. It wasn't always one person, one vote and votes were counted by the number of slaves owned. Women weren't allowed to vote and Blacks weren't allowed to vote. The way voting was conducted was more often than not questionable, the voting scene in The Gangs of New York for those who saw the movie, is a good example. From the beginning, the election hasn't always been held on the first Tuesday in November and the President hasn't always taken office on January 20. 9/11 was an unprecedented event and the beginning of a new era, one we have to be prepared for in the future.

The thing that bothers me the most about this isn't the proposal for a contingency plan. We do need to have one in place. My problem is with the timing. As LS mentioned, it upset the primary elections on 9/11 so the possibility was already known. Why hasn't the subject come up on the Federal level until now, almost 3 years later? I'm also very uncomfortable about the way it's being brought up. It's not the "on" that's bothering me, it's the "or about" that's really disturbing me, especially with the present administration involved.