snizz
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I'm sure I'd be more upset if I weren't quite so heavily sedated
Posts: 322
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Post by snizz on Jul 5, 2004 22:26:13 GMT -5
I finally got a chance to see "Fahrenheit 9/11". Has anybody else seen it and what are your thoughts on it?
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Post by Mr._Shooter on Jul 6, 2004 19:51:33 GMT -5
Saw it. Thought it was a terrific anti-war movie; nothing more, nothing less. Really made the case for why we NEVER should have gone to Iraq in the first place (although, at this stage of the game, my thoughts and prayers are with the troops...innocent victims in this whole mess). Thought the dissection of George Bush's reaction to news of the second plane attack on 9-11 was gratuitous and entirely mean-spirited, although I understand the point Moore was trying to make. Overall, a film that MUST be seen by anyone who is on the fence about the war.
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Roland
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Robert Johnson King of the Delta Blues
Posts: 235
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Post by Roland on Jul 7, 2004 16:19:20 GMT -5
Another embarrassing Roland moment. I've been to the forum twice and didn't notice the new board was up. I thought it was very thought provoking. My thoughts are that it was more than a great anti-war statement. It went further than that. It revealed that the unsavory ties run deeper than most people realize, like the one to the NY Post that I was unaware of, and it soundly chastised the disgrace the media has become by letting itself get caught up in and feed into the polarizing partisanship our government has displayed in recent years. Mr. Shooter, I respectfully disagree with your perception of Moore being mean spirited in regard to Bush right after he received word of the attack. Moore's perception was the same one I had on that day. For approximately 12 hours following the attacks, there was no leadership demonstrated by anyone on the Federal government level. There was no communication between our Federal "leaders" and the American people. Not one of them stepped up and showed any command of the situation, which at the least would have calmed the fears of the American people who were left in the dark not knowing if the attack was over or if that was only the beginning. The only person taking charge and being a source of comfort on that day that comes immediately to my mind was Mayor Rudy, and I say this being someone not from the New York area.
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Post by Mr._Shooter on Jul 8, 2004 9:57:50 GMT -5
Roland, thanks for disagreeing "respectfully." I agree with everything you wrote about those first few hours after the 9-11 attacks. Rudy indeed was the only leader in the spotlight on that fateful day, and I too was disturbed by the federal government's failure to provide useful information or anything in the way of comfort or solace. I just found Moore's detailed examination of Bush's facial expressions and demeanor upon learning of the second plane attack to be unfair. Moore can't possible know what was going through Bush's head at that moment, and although Moore might have reacted differently in that situation (perhaps he would have dropped that children's book and left the children in his dust), what really is the point of scrutinizing Bush's facial expressions and eye movements? For heaven's sake, there is enough in the record (i.e., enough facts) to indict Bush; Moore doesn't need to engage in speculation or arm-chair psychology to prove his case. Anyhow, you're right, Roland. It was one of the most thought-provoking movies of recent memory. I have been forced to re-evaluate my previously dim opinion of Mr. Moore's movies and politics.
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Post by Roughneck on Jul 8, 2004 10:43:02 GMT -5
Those clowns go around questioning the patriotism of a man who fought and bled in vietnam, question the patriotism of a quadrapalegic who fought for this country, and smear John McCain, who spent five years as a POW, as a racist in the last primary even though he has an adopted child from Southeast Asia. They also question his knowledge on national security. Meanwhile, everyone of consequence in the administration who pushed for war did everything they could to stay out of uniform. Then they throw a tempertantrum when THEIR integrity is questioned. They also seem to like to call Edwards' experience into question when he probably has more of it than Bush did in 2000. And I love how they call themselves the platform of opptimism.
A little fun examining Bush's mug is chump change compared to what these idiots have tried pulling.
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Post by LS on Jul 8, 2004 23:17:50 GMT -5
I don't think it was unfair Shooter...I'm not a mind reader either- so I don't know Moore's intent- but I more than wholeheartedly agree with Roland's statements on the gross absence of leadership that day. My take on it is that Moore's trying to discredit the Bushies' motto of 'unwavering leadership' when in fact at the moment this country needed it the most- there was NONE- zero- zip. I think Moore was showing 'the puppet' (DuHbya) caught far away from his 'puppetmasters' and thus was absolutely clueless about what he should do because there was no one there to tell him what to do...So much for his 'unwavering leadership.' Personally, I think Moore could've made it even more effective had he intercut with footage showing Rudy- who was caught up smack in the middle of the attack and narrowly escaped being a casualty himself- still choking and covered in dust springing immediately and authoritatively into action- making snap decisions automatically without a second thought- putting his own personal ordeal on hold to attend to his JOB.
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snizz
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I'm sure I'd be more upset if I weren't quite so heavily sedated
Posts: 322
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Post by snizz on Jul 9, 2004 0:36:46 GMT -5
They also seem to like to call Edwards' experience into question when he probably has more of it than Bush did in 2000. Considering Edwards is only the Veep candidate, we've all seen what "experience" got us.
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snizz
Full Member
I'm sure I'd be more upset if I weren't quite so heavily sedated
Posts: 322
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Post by snizz on Jul 9, 2004 1:09:03 GMT -5
It was interesting watching how 9/11 got twisted from Bin Laden-al Queda into Hussein-Iraq. The exploitation of 9/11 is disgusting and it's glaringly apparent they consider those who died and were injured that day nothing more than nuisance collateral damage, if even that much. I was very affected by what the Bushies are trying to hide from us, the horribly wounded and the coffins. The mother of the dead soldier who was confronted by the scatterbrained jackass ranting about how that part of it is all fake really pissed me off. If they don't see it then it's not real. Everyone who mentioned the lack of communication and information that day said it all. I was out of state when it happened and my family was out on Long Island. Information was slow in getting out and I had no idea what the hell was going on. Were they safe or was it happening on the Island too? Brookhaven Lab, which has a nuclear reactor, isn't that far from where I live. The phone circuits were busy and I couldn't get a call through. All planes were grounded so I rented a car and hightailed it back, but was stopped on the Jersey side of the GW because of the lockdown. I finally managed to get a call through a couple of hours later and thank God everyone was safe, but why was I and millions of other people put through that living hell? What happened to the emergency broadcast system? It was put in effect during the Cold War in case of a national emergency. If this wasn't a national emergency, then what the hell is?
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Post by Travelinman on Jul 9, 2004 8:04:18 GMT -5
Saw it. Thought it was a terrific anti-war movie; nothing more, nothing less. Really made the case for why we NEVER should have gone to Iraq in the first place (although, at this stage of the game, my thoughts and prayers are with the troops...innocent victims in this whole mess). Thought the dissection of George Bush's reaction to news of the second plane attack on 9-11 was gratuitous and entirely mean-spirited, although I understand the point Moore was trying to make. Overall, a film that MUST be seen by anyone who is on the fence about the war. Mr. Shooter how've you & your new bride been? Well I hope. As an anti war film............The President was in transit for 12 hours after the attack. No federal leadership for 12 hours, and you feel the classroom shot was gratuitous. Well as you and I have in the past we do agree to disagree. Talk to you soon.
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Post by Travelinman on Jul 9, 2004 8:18:42 GMT -5
The two parts that hit me the hardest was the begining, the black screen, the jet engines, and the sound of the impact. The scenes of the WOUNDED soldiers, the one we never hear about. The men and women will be our reminders for a long time to come. I spoke to a client of my company yesterday, this weekend he's going to see his nephew. He's coming home from a VA hospital, missing 1 leg, 1 arm, and 1 eye. He has no idea how he is going to react. I told him just be as you were before. Be his uncle and his friend. Crack a beer and have a few laughs. He told me they could'nt have beer.....not because of meds but because he is only 19. I think you all know what I told him.
I personally would like escort the adminisrtation to Irag give them rifles and camo's and tell them to show me how it's done.
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Post by Mr._Shooter on Jul 9, 2004 9:17:14 GMT -5
Mr. Shooter how've you & your new bride been? Well I hope. As an anti war film............The President was in transit for 12 hours after the attack. No federal leadership for 12 hours, and you feel the classroom shot was gratuitous. Well as you and I have in the past we do agree to disagree. Talk to you soon. TM, we've been well, thanks for asking. "Happily married" is NOT an oxymoron. ;D Anyhow, I hope you are well. As for my take on the classroom thing, hey, that's the way it struck me. The rest of Moore's film was absolutely riveting and convincing.
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Post by Mr._Shooter on Jul 9, 2004 9:26:48 GMT -5
Personally, I think Moore could've made it even more effective had he intercut with footage showing Rudy- who was caught up smack in the middle of the attack and narrowly escaped being a casualty himself- still choking and covered in dust springing immediately and authoritatively into action- making snap decisions automatically without a second thought- putting his own personal ordeal on hold to attend to his JOB. LS, you might be on to something there. I actually agree that playing up the Rudy/Bush contrast would have been more effective than Moore's tongue-in-cheek editorializing.
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Roland
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Robert Johnson King of the Delta Blues
Posts: 235
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Post by Roland on Jul 9, 2004 23:10:23 GMT -5
Roland, thanks for disagreeing "respectfully." Mr. Shooter, I find everyone on this board has been refreshingly respectful of each other's opinions. You came away with a somewhat different perspective on a few things than other people did, but everyone who disagreed with you presented their disagreements both civilly and intelligently with their own viewpoints and without berating you for yours. We're all entitled to our opinions. This is a fine example of constructive debate and dialogue. LS brought up some interesting points and that "unwavering leadership" slogan is what ran through my mind too during that sequence. Moore's opinions don't always reflect mine, but he is good at making people think and whether or not I agree with him, to me that's not a bad trait. Her thoughts on how Moore could have given the scene more impact I think are excellent, but we all know why Moore would never do that.
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Post by LS on Jul 11, 2004 23:35:58 GMT -5
The scenes of the WOUNDED soldiers, the one we never hear about. The men and women will be our reminders for a long time to come. I spoke to a client of my company yesterday, this weekend he's going to see his nephew. He's coming home from a VA hospital, missing 1 leg, 1 arm, and 1 eye. He has no idea how he is going to react. I told him just be as you were before. Be his uncle and his friend. Crack a beer and have a few laughs. He told me they could'nt have beer.....not because of meds but because he is only 19. I think you all know what I told him. I personally would like escort the administration to Iraq give them rifles and camo's and tell them to show me how it's done. My heart goes out to his nephew TM. I wouldn't want to be in the uncle's shoes either...it's gotta be a very tough line to walk between being there for the nephew and trying to keep a lid on the personal anger towards the needless cause of this poor kid's horrible injuries.
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Post by LS on Jul 12, 2004 0:07:59 GMT -5
Mr. Shooter, I find everyone on this board has been refreshingly respectful of each other's opinions. Eh- we're not really into mudslingin' around here...mud wrestling- maybe. ;D But yeah it's pretty impressive...even the snizzster's refrained from peppering his posts with his usual...um...more colorfully descriptive choices of words. ;D ;D LS, you might be on to something there. I actually agree that playing up the Rudy/Bush contrast would have been more effective than Moore's tongue-in-cheek editorializing. Thought we agreed to knock this stuff off Shooter?? It's the way I would've done it...but as Roland said- it's something Moore would never do. Regardless of how well Rudy did his job- the fact remains he's still a Republican and unfortunately Moore's too partisan to put it aside and give credit where credit's due. I have mixed feelings on Rudy as a whole...but he did rise up to the task above and beyond on 9/11 and in the few weeks that followed- and 'party lines' should have no bearing on it...
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