Liberal New Yorkers welcome Republicans

[snizz]

LS said:

Yep snizzster...you hit on pretty much all the 'highlights' But even more telling...if we're all so much safer thanks to the Bushies- then why the need for the police state and 12,000 armed cops and military personnel?? Would seem to me- that right there proves in reality- we're less safe.

Why do so many people not get that?

I also noticed a few other things that got 'lost' in the news...The weekend before the GOP convention it was announced that an arrest was imminent in the CIA outing case- and that it was someone in Feith's dept. So what happened?? And what about the intel leaks to Israel on Iran...also from Feith's dept.??

You forgot a few other newsworthy goodies. Medicare rising 17%. Consumer confidence took a nosedive. Dismal job growth.

On the subject of Laura and Teresa, there is something about that Laura Bush that gives me the willies. Bitterness might be part of it, but there's something about that woman that just ain't altogether right. Teresa's a-ok with me. She's human, she's got emotion and she's shown through the years she's got empathy for people outside her social class. She's fiesty but she pulls it off with class. The only real difference I see between her and Hillary is that Teresa doesn't have political aspirations of her own.

[LS]

Roland said:

LS, I didn't mean to run out and leave you in the lurch to debate this one alone. The first week of school is always a chaotic nightmare.

LOL... no sweat. Oh yeah...school started. I'm old so I forget about that.

Consider the fact that no one had a problem with Teresa when she was married to the late Sen. Heinz or before Kerry entered the presidential race, and yes she was very much in the public eye. Consider too that Sen. Heinz was a Republican, as was Teresa. She remained a Republican after marrying Kerry, however she switched parties in protest of the campaign smear tactics used by Republican Saxby Chambliss against Democrat Max Cleland in the 2002 Georgia senatorial election. When questioned about her switch, she made the following statement. "Let me just say having been married to a Republican, wonderful man, who was the old kind of Republican that we used to have once upon a time, the Republicanism of this administration is neither Republican nor conservative. There are good people in both parties. These people are not Republicans."

Those same tactics are now being used against her husband, John Kerry. Mr. Shooter, considering that Laura Bush hasn't registered as a blip on the radar screen of public consciousness for the past 4 years, I find her newfound popularity to be something more than coincidental, particularly when added to Teresa's Republican history. Could it be more feasable that it has nothing to do with personality and has more to do with a Republican who defected because of this administration and she's now the wife of their "enemy"?

Another slam dunk Roland. ;D Personally I like to 'neglect' bringing up Teresa's Republicanism...I have fun watching ignoramus neocons bash her as being a 'lefty liberal' without having the first clue as to her background. ;D

[LS]

SweetNadine said:

Just wanted to throw in my two cents to this conversation.

I watched the Laura Bush speech. IMHO, she is a bitter woman. She doesn't like the bashing her husband is receiving. Laura Bush wants her children and her husband to be exempted from all the thorns of life. A lot of this bashing could have been avoided had there been some forthright honesty coming from the mansion on the hill.

Teresa Heinz is alright in my opinion. Yep, she took-up for herself with the reporter. I probably would have to had I put up with his bs for the period of time she has put up with his harassment. I think the evening she made "shove it" a worldwide renown cliche, the lady was tired and had had enough of the mental abuse from the guy. We didn't hear much about this man's record in the media though. Just like with the bashing about Heinz. Heinz is a worldwide company and has been for decades. However, you'll never hear about how the owners never laid-off a soul during the Great Depression. The founder and his offspring were operating a worldwide organization long before today's modern communication systems. And I have never read of the unscrupulous behavior from the owners as has been performed from companies such as Ford.

You know your two cents is always welcome Alice.

Not only that, but the Heinz family has many philanthropical foundations set up. (I don't see any Bush or Cheney foundations ). Teresa has always actively promoted and participates in them. I also think that because she's a naturalized citizen and was educated and has traveled abroad extensively, she has a better grasp and understanding of many world views and would be an asset.

The upright, hypcritical, morality police of the world have tried in vain to downgrade all of the protesters who participated in the protests during the RNC. I don't see it that way. First Amendment rights are guaranteed in the Constitution. However, with some of the things going on nowadays one would think the Constitution went by the wayside in 2000.

They'll never give up trying Alice- they don't like dissent and want to pretend it doesn't exist. That's why the Bushies only give speeches before loyal supporters...they can't defend themselves or their actions in the face of opposition. That's why DuHbya's scared to death of debating Kerry.
...But the Constitution did go by the wayside in 2000- the minute we got our first court appointed president.

[LS]

snizz said:

Why do so many people not get that?

Because some people think if they see lots of armed security around- they're safe Thing is- I'm not sure exactly how armed security could've stopped maniacs from flying planes into buildings- or how they'd stop someone from tossing a vial of chemicals or a grenade onto a subway platform... Thems the chances you take living in a free country...no different than before. I feel sorry for 'em though cause if they're gonna spend their lives living in fear- that ain't livin'- that's surrendering.

On the subject of Laura and Teresa, there is something about that Laura Bush that gives me the willies. Bitterness might be part of it, but there's something about that woman that just ain't altogether right.

Long as you stay outta her way when she's behind the wheel- you should be safe.

[Mr._Shooter]

LS said:

But I'll give it to you straight Shooter- you can sit there with all the polls you like...and believe them if you're fool enough to.

I'm no fool, LS, my profession notwithstanding. And I'm not sitting here with my polls (at least not comfortably, anyway). In fact, I regret even taking Roughneck's comment about the pro-Laura polls and running with it, since it apparently painted me a champion of poll numbers and the like. I regret too that I made mention of my own anecdotal experiences, since I guess I shouldn't believe friends and relatives when they tell me they don't like Teresa.

To Roland's point, maybe it is a regional thing...or maybe I'm talking to all the wrong people. Whatever the case, I think I'm safe saying that both Laura and Teresa have at least one fan and at least detractor each. ;D

[Mr._Shooter]

Roland said:

LS, I didn't mean to run out and leave you in the lurch to debate this one alone. The first week of school is always a chaotic nightmare.

Roland, as you can see, LS had absolutely no problem handling this one sans a wing man.

Anyhow, your point about the Teresa-bashing being some sort of Republican-backlash against a party "traitor" is an interesting one. Food for thought indeed. That being said, I'm pretty certain that my friends and relatives (and even a few of my clients and acquaintances who dared to talk politics with me) weren't working in concert with the RNC when they voiced concern about Teresa's personality. I mean, my cousin Jim does carry the conservative torch, but his ability to manipulate anything is questionable even in his own house! ;D

[Roland]

Mr._Shooter said:

Roland, as you can see, LS had absolutely no problem handling this one sans a wing man.

Anyhow, your point about the Teresa-bashing being some sort of Republican-backlash against a party "traitor" is an interesting one. Food for thought indeed. That being said, I'm pretty certain that my friends and relatives (and even a few of my clients and acquaintances who dared to talk politics with me) weren't working in concert with the RNC when they voiced concern about Teresa's personality. I mean, my cousin Jim does carry the conservative torch, but his ability to manipulate anything is questionable even in his own house! ;D

I've seen for a while now that LS has no problem holding up her end of a debate. ;D In this instance though, I'm afraid she's the wing man because I'm the one who initiated this one.

Mr. Shooter, I said I wasn't disputing the opinions you've heard. I simply stated that the majority of opinion I've heard was the opposite. On first glance that gives me the impression that it very well may be a regional perspective. But on second glance I'd have to ask, outside of her 15 minutes in the spotlight surrounding the "shove it" incident, since I've heard that neither party is doing much campaigning in the Northeast, how much exposure to Teresa have they had otherwise? Or have they been influenced by the soundbite obsessed media and are basing their opinions on a single overblown and mostly biased reported "news" item?

I'd also like to respond to a comment you made to LS. Please, never regret speaking your mind! You haven't painted yourself as anything and I don't believe anyone is judging you. Open debate and dialogue is extremely important in these times. Much of the last election was based soley on the candidates' personalities and like-ability quotient rather than who was the more qualified candidate. Perhaps if more people had taken the time to look past personalities and had taken a hard look at which candidate was more qualified, we wouldn't be in the dreadful position we are today. Ideally, the subject of both women's personalities should be a political non-factor. We are voting for which of their husbands will be our next president. It's a moot point since whichever man is elected, should either man die or be incapacitated while in office, neither woman is in line for the office and the position of First Lady does not include the power to dictate government policy. It's another example of the ridiculous amount of time and money spent wasted on shallow and petty points that are far removed from the issues that truly concern this country. I find it's a very sad commentary on the state of this country.

[Mr._Shooter]

Roland said:

I've seen for a while now that LS has no problem holding up her end of a debate. ;D In this instance though, I'm afraid she's the wing man because I'm the one who initiated this one.

Roland, if that's the case, you've got a wing "woman" who did a bang-up job. ;D

Mr. Shooter, I said I wasn't disputing the opinions you've heard. I simply stated that the majority of opinion I've heard was the opposite. On first glance that gives me the impression that it very well may be a regional perspective. But on second glance I'd have to ask, outside of her 15 minutes in the spotlight surrounding the "shove it" incident, since I've heard that neither party is doing much campaigning in the Northeast, how much exposure to Teresa have they had otherwise? Or have they been influenced by the soundbite obsessed media and are basing their opinions on a single overblown and mostly biased reported "news" item?

Again, Roland, some very interesting queries. Personally, I can tell you that my first real exposure to Teresa was the reporter incident. I didn't even know that she was once a registered Republican. Anyhow, I suspect that those who voiced negative opinions of Teresa were similary treated to little if any Teresa press. That being said, Teresa hasn't exactly been in the spotlight since that incident; Laura Bush, on the other hand, has been well-exposed (for example, she recently sat with the Katie Couric on the Today Show). If the last image swing voters and fence-sitters have in their minds relative to Teresa is her evisceration of that reporter, I'd argue there might be a problem.

I'd also like to respond to a comment you made to LS. Please, never regret speaking your mind! You haven't painted yourself as anything and I don't believe anyone is judging you. Open debate and dialogue is extremely important in these times.

Roland, don't worry. I think I had tongue in cheek when making that comment. ;D Go back a number of years...you'll note that I've never been shy, in keeping with the generally tolerant nature of this board. People long ago fingered me as conservative, good for nothing lawyer - a devil's advocate, if you will. I enjoy the role. ;D

The last election was based soley on the candidates' personalities and like-ability quotient rather than who was the more qualified candidate. Perhaps if more people had taken the time to look past personalities and had taken a hard look at which candidate was more qualified, we wouldn't be in the dreadful position we are today. Ideally, the subject of both women's personalities should be a political non-factor. We are voting for which of their husbands will be our next president. It's a moot point since whichever man is elected, should either man die or be incapacitated while in office, neither woman is in line for the office and the position of First Lady does not include the power to dictate government policy. It's another example of the ridiculous amount of time and money spent wasted on shallow and petty points that are far removed from the issues that truly concern this country. I find it's a very sad commentary on the state of this country.

Agreed across the board. Of course, if people made judgments about me based upon the woman I chose to be my wife, I'd be more than happy. After all, I married above my station. ;D

[Roland]

I did say wing"man" didn't I? I hope that wasn't a fatal mistake she seems to have gone missing from formation and her plane's vanished.

That's the unbiased media for you Mr. Shooter. Their only interest is in playing up headline grabbing soundbites. That one was played over and over while very few news outlets gave the entire story, as Sweet Nadine mentioned, the whole history Teresa had with this particular reporter in question. He's a reporter with a conservative Pittsburg paper. The late Sen. Heinz was from PA. He has a personal ax to grind because he views her as a Republican traitor after she began dating and eventually married the Democrat Kerry.

Teresa never was the archetypical Washington wife. She's not fond of the spotlight and prefers to occupy herself with her own work on humanitarian efforts and projects. She says she intends to do the same if her husband is elected. I can see your point about that incident being the last image fence sitters have of her. But then as of this point, my last images of Laura are her ungracious, vengeful answer when questioned about the Swiftie attack on Kerry and more recently, her willful choice to ignore the mother of a soldier killed in Iraq who was unceremoniously dragged from a rally and then arrested for the "high crime" of questioning her about her husband's policy in Iraq.

Going back to what LS said about polls, that one stuck with me and I found myself laughing when I punched up the day's headlines on the CNN site. There were 4 stories about various poll results that all contradicted each other-- and that was just on the first page!

On the last point, I'm grateful to see I misread your post Mr. Shooter. ;D I still consider myself a probie getting to know people here, everyone's made me feel welcome to join in and I certainly don't want to do anything to wear out that welcome. You've admitted being a conservative to a degree, there's nothing wrong with that and it seems to be taken and accepted with a great deal of humor rather than anything else. But for whatever it's worth, being you're a "former teacher turned lawyer", I can't in good conscience say you're altogether "good for nothing" ;D

[LS]

Roland said:

I did say wing"man" didn't I? I hope that wasn't a fatal mistake she seems to have gone missing from formation and her plane's vanished.

Looks like everybody else vanished...where'd everybody go??

I don't mind ridin' shotgun now and then ...but no way was it me being wingman- LS don't fly...never has and never will.

But then as of this point, my last images of Laura are her ungracious, vengeful answer when questioned about the Swiftie attack on Kerry and more recently, her willful choice to ignore the mother of a soldier killed in Iraq who was unceremoniously dragged from a rally and then arrested for the "high crime" of questioning her about her husband's policy in Iraq.

And I'm still horrified and mortified this happened in...Jersey!!

Going back to what LS said about polls, that one stuck with me and I found myself laughing when I punched up the day's headlines on the CNN site. There were 4 stories about various poll results that all contradicted each other-- and that was just on the first page!

And I was just reading the ones for PA...they were all right in a row too. Pew had DuHbya ahead, Marist had Kerry ahead, CNN/whoever had 'em in a dead heat...so which one's right??

Looks like since I had my say on the stupidity and inaccuracy of them...it's become quite the topic of discussion. A few days after I made my post- Jimmy Breslin wrote a column in the paper saying basically the same thing...it's about time the charade is exposed- and I think I'll start another thread on the subject.

[Roland]

LS said:

Looks like everybody else vanished...where'd everybody go??

I don't mind ridin' shotgun now and then ...but no way was it me being wingman- LS don't fly...never has and never will.

I was beginning to wonder that myself! I've been looking in and began thinking to myself that you'd gotten yourself shipped off to Gitmo when you seemingly dropped off the radar and then everyone else seemed to disappear.

And I'm still horrified and mortified this happened in...Jersey!!

Don't take it personally LS, it just shows the level of class they present no matter where they go.

And I was just reading the ones for PA...they were all right in a row too. Pew had DuHbya ahead, Marist had Kerry ahead, CNN/whoever had 'em in a dead heat...so which one's right??

Looks like since I had my say on the stupidity and inaccuracy of them...it's become quite the topic of discussion. A few days after I made my post- Jimmy Breslin wrote a column in the paper saying basically the same thing...it's about time the charade is exposed- and I think I'll start another thread on the subject.

Yes, I've been noticing that myself. A welcome return LS, you've put up some good topics for discussion in addition to some from others who've have added some interesting thoughts. I've got some papers to finish grading so I can watch the debates tonight, but I will return later or tomorrow to follow up.

[Roughneck]

Yup, I was checking in too and seeing nothing posted, wondered who was around.

[LS]

Roland said:

I was beginning to wonder that myself! I've been looking in and began thinking to myself that you'd gotten yourself shipped off to Gitmo when you seemingly dropped off the radar and then everyone else seemed to disappear.

My disappearance was unintentional...Gitmo seems like it'd have been a vacation compared to the last couple weeks. And probably a few others were busy mopping up from the attack of the hurricanes.

Don't take it personally LS, it just shows the level of class they present no matter where they go.

You're right- but it still... Then to top it off they're trying to create the illusion that suddenly it might be up for grabs.

Yes, I've been noticing that myself. A welcome return LS, you've put up some good topics for discussion in addition to some from others who've have added some interesting thoughts. I've got some papers to finish grading so I can watch the debates tonight, but I will return later or tomorrow to follow up.

Looks like things are moving along again ...I've got a road trip tomorrow - so I'll try and catch up over the weekend.

[Mr._Shooter]

LS said:

Looks like everybody else vanished...where'd everybody go??

LS, I've been swamped at the office and at home. Thus, the disappearing act.

And now I'm off on my cruise....

[Mr._Shooter]

Roland said:

On the last point, I'm grateful to see I misread your post Mr. Shooter. ;D I still consider myself a probie getting to know people here, everyone's made me feel welcome to join in and I certainly don't want to do anything to wear out that welcome. You've admitted being a conservative to a degree, there's nothing wrong with that and it seems to be taken and accepted with a great deal of humor rather than anything else. But for whatever it's worth, being you're a "former teacher turned lawyer", I can't in good conscience say you're altogether "good for nothing" ;D

Don't worry about crashing the welcome wagon, Roland. And I think, by now, you've been elevated from "probie" status to...well, to whatever follows. ;D Sadly, however, around here you don't even get a free toaster for your trouble.